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Cold Meat Industry I hold it for no secret that much of what Ortus Obscurum has been covering until now has been centered Sweden's Cold Meat Industry. Raison d'être, Arcana, Coph Nia, Gothica, Sephiroth, The Protagonist and Karjalan Sissit are all acts from this label that has been featured in this webzine. My experiences with this label was one of the aspects which inspired me to start writing this zine and still does it contribute to fueling my continued efforts. Thus, it is only natural that the first label to be interviewed within these pages is that of Roger Karmanik, labelmanager of CMI and also the man behind the destructive Power Electronics pioneer Brighter Death Now. This interview isn't as focused on exhibiting the future of CMI as it is on rediscovering its past. Therefore, a lot of the questions are asked on retrospective subjects but there are also attempts to uncover future activities. Read on to find a very interesting interview with one of Sweden's most interesting record labels. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ECTONAUT: CMI deals with several different styles of music, yet not just anything. You have released Sinister Neo-classical/Industrial music and Harsh electronic music side-to-side with Dark Ambient and medieval music. There have also been some weirder side-steps like the releases by Cintecele Diavoli and En Halv Kokt i Folie. Since many of the bands that have released albums on your label sound different from each other, what is it really that decides whether or not a band can release an album through CMI? What qualities do you look for when you sign bands? ROGER KARMANIK: Lately it has become more the quality of the person behind the music... I am too old and care too less to bother with complete assholes, no matter how great music they make! And I like to see each release as a little challenge, how this now can be possible after 120 releases.... I still have the childish curiosity and the teeny rebellishness within me, and I like this to be preserved as long as I possible can, if it dies, I'll die. But right now I have my knee full! It would take a lot to sign a new band! ECTONAUT Yes, already on The Absolute Supper it really seemed like you had established a core of musicians around the label. Most of them still remain on the label and acts like Sephiroth and Coph Nia are younger additions. I understand that this concept of a core of musicians is something very dear to CMI and that you have a strong friendship to every band on the label, am I right? ROGER KARMANIK: Yes I would like us all to be in great friendship but somehow during the years we grow a bit apart, and with new bands coming in it is not so easy to gather everyone as the unique core we once use to be, even though I believe strongly that all people would very much get along very well, if we just met up more often and got drunk and just had plenty of fun, which we usually do when we meet. And that is the most important with everything - to have fun! If we can't have fun anymore what's the point of doing this? We would end up as all the others. ECTONAUT: 205recordings, Erebus Odora, Fin de Siécle Media, Yantra Atmospheres etc. It seems like many of the artist on CMI are establishing themselves as label managers these days. What do you think of this? Well, actually nearly all these labels releases have been manufactured and distributed through CMI, so I see this as a more positive contribution to the scene. CMI can not release everything, and shall not! And these labels are good way to still keep the music within the clan. ECTONAUT: Is there are goal of some sort that you're striving towards with the label? What is it really that motivates you to keep going on with it day after day? ROGER KARMANIK: It's like breathing, just as simple, I can't stop it - I would just choke and die. My goal with the label is to grow! both the label, the bands and me as a person, it has been staggered for sometime now, but I feel that fresh air is coming in, and I don't mean new bands, more that it is a time of changes within my life and the labels life. - Maturing!! hehehe! ECTONAUT: Has your intention and goal with CMI changed much since the days the label was established? What was it really that you wanted with the label from start? Do you think you have achieved that by now? What I wanted from the start I have achieved of course, but you always put a higher goal by each year, so there is always something to strive for. ECTONAUT: Could you imagine doing this in 20-30 years or so? ROGER KARMANIK: Hehe, sadly I can! I've already been doing it for over 20 years now! And even though my interest has been up and down I have regained a great interest in keeping this going forward. As it always feels as in the makening, with new projects, meeting new people and new experiences. ECTONAUT: You have been doing this for over 15 years now. Did you ever imagine that it would go this far with CMI? How do you look back at this time and where it has taken you? ROGER KARMANIK: No, I couldn't imagine, but the progress has been natural but slow, and that is the way I prefer it, you need to grow into it, to not causing a rush to your head, many labels rushes and disappears just as quickly, I like to see a slow raising, to maintain the core of the label, unpredictable and quality. ECTONAUT: Indeed, I think some labels and musicians tend to stress their audience by overwhelming them with new releases faster than they can digest them. We saw this happening to Black Metal once and it sort of created an inflation with new albums coming out every day, often sounding the same, the bands looking the same etc. Almost every new album sounded boring. At the same time, the good new bands became harder and harder to sort out among all cliché names and copycats. Even though I support a vast market for underground music, I fear that the same effect will be seen in the Dark Ambient and Industrial genres if people only stress ideas instead of coming up with new ones. Do you have any thoughts on this matter? ROGER KARMANIK: Yes. I feel it seems just too easy to get records released nowadays, the quality doesn't seem to matter anymore, it's the quantity of releases. It's a kind of commercial interest of course, but I believe they're digging their own graves and there is not really that much money in this scene that it's worth the trouble. It just makes the audience fed up! Or at least that is how I feel about it, I can not myself find interest in many of the new bands. Yes, it's comparable to the metal scene… everything sounds the same! And everyone tries to sound the same! It's get just too boring. ECTONAUT: You have been involved in this music for a long time now and it has really grown a lot since CMI was established. Besides what was mentioned above, what is your view on the evolution of the scene in general? Do you the think there has been a positive or negative development? ROGER KARMANIK: I think the development is positive, but the outcome is negative. People have forgotten the initial value of our communication, they seem to think it is just about music and getting a record deal, which is as far from the truth as you can get. It is so much more about passion, pain, provocation than so many of these new upcoming acts ever can imagine. It's a way of thinking. ECTONAUT: What were you listening to around the CMI was established? TG, SPK, Lustmord, Ramleh, well all industrial music from the early 80´s. My wife introduced me to Dead Can Dance, when I meet her I only listened to Industrial music. She softened my heart…. and I poisoned hers! But the whole industrial scene around that time, 1987, was really boring, very much as it is today I believe. So I really wanted CMI to become a fresh alternative, and just that it was a Swedish label with Swedish music made a great difference already by that! And that the music we released was very good didn't make it less interesting. ECTONAUT: You mentioned that there were some ongoing changes in both your life and the labels life. Are these 'changes' something we will come to recognise in the coming months? No, hopefully you will never recognize anything, as always. ECTONAUT: I sense that 'Neo-classical meets Industrial music' is gaining more room on the label these days with Sophia, Karjalan Sissit and the re-issuing of the ISN material. Is this just a coincidence or is it a side of CMI that you think has not got enough room during the previous millennium? ROGER KARMANIK: Coincidentally at 100%! I think neo-classical music got enough room with Protagonist, as this is a fine example of Neo-classical music, also with Puissance, but it got a bit overhand... but still Puissance is a classical act! The new ones such Sophia and Karjalan Sissit is derived from a more rougher perspective, yes it holds more industrial elements in the music, which is a progress I embrace a lot, even though I enjoy a well performed true neo-classical music as well, but we should never be narrowed by the limits just because of a musical term! We must go one! Strive forward. The ISN box is completely coincidental. I never really saw ISN as neo-classical. ECTONAUT: Is there perhaps another genre of musical style that you would like to give more room to on CMI but has not had any chance yet? ROGER KARMANIK: I believe both me and the bands are as open minded as we can get, we all like to find new things, explore new possibilities, for me it has not so much to do with the music but with the eager of touching the untouchable, as yet only for a grasp of a second. Throughout music, art, writings or whatever we may find desirable. It is our life and what we live for! But a radical change of musical approach? No, not without a damn good conceptual reason. ROGER KARMANIK: The shifting of seasons. From high light sun and warmth to dark, cold icy snow. And our isolation from major cities and population, we are not so easily influences by our environmental, at least not by the modern influences in form of music, but our inheritage from the past, our culture, art and background. The music comes from our inside and out, and not outside and in. ECTONAUT: New CD's by Swedish bands seems to be coming out on Cold Meat all the time and the impression I have got from meeting people with insight tells me that you have a very tight schedule these days when it comes to new releases. Would you mind sharing with us some information on what you have planned for the coming months? ROGER KARMANIK: There is so much we're planning but so little of the plans that actually come true that I fear to talk about the future, I just know it is out there, waiting to be raped, so lets just save this precious future virgin within our hearts, and let time tell what kind of fruits she bears for us, maybe a surprise, maybe a sour apple? - what's the rush? you will get a bit of it soon enough anyway! ECTONAUT: I heard something about a forth-coming Morthound box a couple of months ago. Can you confirm this rumour and if so, do you have any details on this release. Yes this is what I want to do, and I hope I will be able to do this soon, as with the ISN-box, with all Morthond CDs + extra material, would be a great release! ECTONAUT: CMI have released a lot of old stuff during the last years by acts likes Archon Satani, Maschinenzimmer 412, raison 'dêtre and In Slaughter Natives. What is the reason for this? The reason is simple, this is material that is outstanding! And still today knocks most others flat dead! Despite the fact it's 10 years old! - which only again proves that these persons behind the bands has been genius since day 1! It's not by pure accident CMI has reached this level. ECTONAUT: Are you planning any more re-issuings for the year 2003? No, not that I can think of right now, there are a lot of new ones coming and these have of course top priority. But on second thought I have the first BDN tape I want to release on CD, as it is 20-year anniversary this year! ECTONAUT: What is the story around the Projekt Hat box? It seems to be awfully delayed. Is it perhaps the effort that one has to put into getting this piece that scares people from applying for it or are you having problems finding the 'appropriate customers'? ROGER KARMANIK: I could have all these boxes sold within 1 day if I wanted to, but the reason to why it is getting delayed is just because it isn't finished yet, components we are waiting for, masters to be produced, manufacturing and yes, I have not put as much effort in pushing this release forward either, it will come when it's finished. This is not a top priority release, and neither is it needed to be, it holds it's unique concept as it is, and it will remain so. This is a one timer, and has no real due date. But assumable is to say it will be released before June. ECTONAUT: What news are there on the up-coming CMI.100 DVD compilation? Rumours abound that this will be a very special release indeed. Can you give us some details on what it will involve and when it is likely to be released? ROGER KARMANIK: Of course this will be a special release, it's a DVD! I can not at this point give any further details, neither can I say when it's ready for release, maybe summer next year? There is so much work left with it. But we expect all major bands will be featured with at least one video each maybe live material, maybe backstage orgies, maybe maybe maybe.... we'll see!! ECTONAUT: It seems like things have really slowed down concerning your side-labels Cruel Moon International and Death Factory since these two were established. There have only been a few new signings during the last years. What's the reason for this? ROGER KARMANIK: I've been really focused on CMI, and that is what is most important, so I don't even look for releases for the other labels, unless something extraordinary shows up, I like Gothica and Ataraxia a lot, and like to remain focusing on them. ECTONAUT: Have you ever thought of bringing over Ataraxia or Gothica or perhaps some act from the Death Factory roster to perform live here in Sweden? ROGER KARMANIK: No, there is no interest for the cruel moon bands in Sweden, and secondly I will not organise any liveshows anymore, there is a lot of other people that could do this without having me involved in every matter. ECTONAUT: When I interviewed the photographer Martín Pels for my Art Section, he mentioned that he would love to have an art book released by CMI. He also said that he had brought up the idea of releasing a book with you, not just containing his art but also art from the entire CMI history. Is this something you could imagine doing or is CMI only about releasing music? ROGER KARMANIK: I could imagine doing a lot of things, and I like to remain open for any suggestion in these areas as this is something new for me, and also it has been some of a dream to make a book with higher class material and obscure pictures/images. Since I started CMI I wanted to see CMI not only dedicated to music but all kinds of arts, that is why I have a great enthusiasm for bands such as IRM and Skin Area. I like to project images in all forms to the viewer, not being castrated because of commercial interest. ECTONAUT: Ha ha, IRM surely had an interesting set on their Norrköping gig last year, yet I doubt the security guards agree, judging from their faces :). Anyway, the Guardian published an article on Industrial music 'flirting with Hitler' not too long ago. It spoke of 'the growing Nazism in the Goth-scene', mentioning projects like Der Blutharsh and Death In June. Despite the fact that the article was rather poorly researched and tendentious, this is an ongoing discussion in the Industrial scene as far as I can see. As you have yourself had some problems with distributors with some of your releases - for example those of Puissance - and you also distribute releases by the above mentioned bands, I would like to ask you where you stand on this matter. Is there such a thing as a 'threat of Nazism' in the Industrial scene. Or is it rather a fact of misunderstanding or perhaps lack of understanding? ROGER KARMANIK: We are not here to make people understand, but to misunderstand. - who said that? ECTONAUT: I feel people tend to miss the fact that artist create art, not politics. I feel that most who proclaim censorship tend to reduce the human mind into a little piece of meat without any judgement, will or taste whatsoever. Even though many people of course eminate such an easily influencable character, I think this is complete bullshit and that if there is anything that create tension in a society, then it is denial and censorship. Do you agree? What are your thoughts on censorship? ROGER KARMNAIK: Censorship is a necessary tool to keep art provocative, if people didn't get upset or didn't care then there would be no provocation left. I "love" censorship, it's such a great mirror of the society and how people in general think. And it's such a great source of inspiration! ECTONAUT: He he, that is an interesting way of looking at it I guess. Have you had any more problems with getting your releases out since the days when Puissance resided on the label? ROGER KARMANIK: Yes, and I still have occasionally troubles, but it's the way it is, and shall be. ECTONAUT: Besides supplying CMI with Romanian butchers and other infernal offerings, what has the Internet meant to CMI? ROGER KARMANIK: To CMI it have meant a lot in form of communications, and promotion, but it has also made it more difficult to define the importance of the emails we get. Some may be of totally nonsense while others are of utmost importance, it is very difficult to make a judgement out of an email. But maybe this has a purpose of it's own as well, that all email should be judged equally important. I just don't understand how many radioshows there can be in Romania interested in CMI. ECTONAUT: Drawing close to the end, I would like to ask you if you would welcome an increasing understanding for the kind of music you represent? Or would you perhaps like to see it remain more esoteric? ROGER KARMANIK: I would welcome it. As this is the only vital musical genre around right now it would make a great impact on the people of today, but on the other hand the more acceptance the more infected the scene would become so it is like a balance between good and evil... ECTONAUT: It sort of would lose the magic if we were to see Brighter Death Now on MTV without anyone reacting... wouldn't it? ROGER KARMANIK: I don't think you need to be worried, the day BDN is on MTV, that day I am dead! ECTONAUT: To end this interview finally, what's up really with Brighter Death Now at the moment? Are there any new releases or shows planned for the next year? ROGER KARMANIK: There is this new 12" on Jinx, and then a few other vinyls planned, one hopefully on Xn Recordings, one split 12" with Coph Nia on CMI, the follower LP to 1890, the 20 year anniversary re-issue CD. Also started working on a new CD, as a follower to MABD, but it will probably take about 2 years to finish... Have 3 liveshows coming up, Rostock, Leipzig and Chicago. Feels abit weird after all the silence from me, but I think all these shows will have personally significant importance to me, all in different aspects. Relevant links: Contact: |
